Official Luthiers Forum!

I use a scary sharp setup when I sharpen my chisels and plane irons, but I
still use an arkansas stone to sharpen my whittling knife (what can I say, I
read "Clapton's Guitar").

Since I'm always out of honing oil and the time I think about it is 9:00 at
night when I finally get some time in the shop and it's not exactly
available at the corner drug store. So, I'm wondering if there are some
alternatives. My first thought is mineral oil. Second thought is vegatable
oil. Seems the point of the oil is the lube the stone and float the iron
shavings; don't know why mineral or veggie oil wouldn't do that. Of
course mineral oil wouldn't spoil like veggie oil would.

Bad idea?

I use mineral oil myself I have never had any problems with it.

3 in 1 oil thinned 50% with kerosene or turpintine is good, or even straight kerosene.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Spit, beer, water anything to float the fine dust out of the abrasive.

Al

Beer? Beer! What's WRONG with you??!!

Is Pepsi ok ?, don't have beer here!

kerosene/mineral oil @ 1:1, is what Mr Cumpiano suggests, and what he says he finds works best, of all commercial and homemade preparations.
Cheers
Charliewood

Some advocate a dilute solution of ordinary washing up liquid. Clean the stones first with a solution of biological washing powder to remove the old oil residues and then use the dilute wasing up solution, It has the advantage that the stones clean up under the tap and don't get that annoying encrusted surface build up that can occur with oil. That said I haven't used an oil stone in a long time. Scary sharp with dilute washing up liquid, then a 10000 grit water stone.

Don't you just love a sharp blade!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

Not to be offensive, but some 'interpretation' might be in order for us in the USA, and elsewhere, outside the UK. I think that "washing up liquid", in the UK, probably means, "liquid dishwashing detergent", that we clean our eating utensils with on a daily basis, 'over here' in the USA. But, what is "biological washing powder"? I can only guess that it's something like "Ajax" brand 'scouring powder' in the USA. Can you provide some brand names, or further explanation?
Again, please don't take offense, I think your idea is sound, but just want to be clear regarding linguistic differences.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

"Biological Washing Powder" would be basic, non-perfumed washing powder for use in (clothes) washing machines/hand-washing clothing. Bio-tex is a brand we have here, but I somehow doubt you have the same stuff...seems to vary from country to country within Europe, so...Mattia Valente38845.2413657407

Sorry Chris, this is a problem we have on this side of the pond a lot with the forum, interpreting US English that most here use into English English that we use.

Mattia is right Wahing up liquid is the stuff you hand wash your cooking utensils and plates, just a basic liquid detergent, more basic the better. Biological washing powder is the stuff you wash your clothes in, but it must be the type that syas Bio or biological on the pack. Over here most makers do a biological and Non-biological version of their brands.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Water be good.

I use water. But then I have Japanese water stones. They just soak in water all the time and cut great when called on.

Colin
"English English" ?
   Would you pleas report to the departement of redundancy departement.
You know we all speak the Queen's English on this side of the pond.
John K38845.5162384259

Water stones are a different animal from oil stones. I don't think I'd use
water on an oil stone.

[QUOTE=John K] Colin
"English English" ?
   Would you pleas report to the departement of redundancy departement.
You know we all speak the Queen's English on this side of the pond.
[/QUOTE]

Yes but I'm a 'republican' so I can't speak Queen's Enlish.

"Two nations separated by a single language", come on John you know we all wince when we hear our language being murdered!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=ecklesweb] Water stones are a different animal from oil stones. I don't think I'd use
water on an oil stone.[/QUOTE]

Believe me mixed with a little dish washer detergent, it works great on oil stones.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I just use my Arkansas stones dry. When they get dirty, I wash them with dish soap and water.

I read an article in Popular Science (or a similar magazine) a number of years ago by a fellow who made his living sharpening knives. He swore that using a stone dry gave the sharpest edge. As I recall, there were some microphotographs in the article that seemed to back him up.

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John Cavanaugh
Saint Paul, MN
"What could possibly go wrong?"

Colin & Mattia,

Thanks for the interpretations, and explanation. I'll have to look for that 'biological' stuff. I kind of remember some advertisements 'years ago' that sounded like that. Sounds like the sort of product that the american buying public would reject.

Regardless, your method makes 'perfect sense' to this american.

As for redundancey:

English = People from England
English = A language

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

For what it's worth: I believe 'Biological' in this context isn't so much about the biodegradable, I think (although I do believe it is), but about 'active biological ingredients'/enzymes in the powder itself. I'm somewhat wary of the claims, but I haven't bothered trying to look into the chemistry, to be honest...

Before I switched to water stones I used a thin solution of soap and water. Water by itslf is too thin to keep the surface of the stone from loading and glazing, in my experience. Maybe it would be OK on a stone that had never been oiled. I used 'Ivory' soap, which has no lotions or other gick in it. 'Dr. Bonner's Castile Soap' would be good, too.

I use mineral spirits on my oilstone set-up. These have never seen anything else. The liquid is not a lubricant-that is the last thing you need;remember, a lubricant is a molecular barrier between surfaces that somewhat separates the two surfaces. The liquid on an oilstone is a flushing tool, to move away swarf and minimize its packing the pores of the abrasive. When I was a kid we wet our "whet stones" with spit. It still works on a stone that has not seen oil.Also, one can clean the pores of an oilstone by boiling it out with a detergent- some do it in a dishwasher. Then one can go back to water(I agree that dishwashing detergent/soap helps). Of course, waterstones use the liquid for dual purpose- flushing and retaining a slurry and in that slurry the abrasive particles reduce in size and take one closer to the next desired finer abrasive level. Since waterstones gouge so easily, I reserve them for wider blades, like plane irons and chisels 3/8 and wider. A clumsy run of a swept gouge cannel down a beautifully flattened waterstone produces an ugly sight and lots of work to re-flatten. As for the final stage of honing, I get just a barely perceptible better polish from my 8000 water than I get from my black hard Arkansas. I also strop on a very hard leather strip charged with green on the rough side and plain on the smooth hard tanned side. Some of the sharpening gurus I have studied claim the the green(aluminum oxide) is more coarse than the 8000 waterstone- my observations on my Norton 8000 differ from them. My lecture for the day. Best regards, MT

[QUOTE=Colin S] [QUOTE=ecklesweb] Water stones are a different animal from oil stones. I don't think I'd use
water on an oil stone.[/QUOTE]

Believe me mixed with a little dish washer detergent, it works great on oil stones.

Colin[/QUOTE]

Having used dish washing liquid and water exclusively many years ago on oil stones, I'm with Colin, it works very well. I also like the way it tends to grip the paper to the glass when using the "scarey sharp" system...however I call it Kim sharp as I came up with the same system just by chance about 25 years ago, long before the internet and long before ever hearing that term

Cheers

Kim    

[QUOTE=John K] Colin
"English English" ?
   Would you pleas report to the departement of redundancy departement.
You know we all speak the Queen's English on this side of the pond.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, like Queen Latifa.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......